Curse

ashes · May 16, 2010, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Im thinking maybe Ghostmirror Light as a "self-heal" ??

Heroes tend to spam OoV alot, and that rly hurt their redbar

Daesu · May 16, 2010, 11:01 PM // 23:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashes

Im thinking maybe Ghostmirror Light as a "self-heal" ??

Heroes tend to spam OoV alot, and that rly hurt their redbar

I hardly use one, but here is my go:

N/Rt
Blood 12+1+1
Soul Reaping 8+1
Communing 10

OOV
Blood Bond
Mark of Fury
Disenchantment
Pain
Signet of Lost Souls
Shadow Song
Flesh of my Flesh

Myotheraccount · May 17, 2010, 01:27 AM // 01:27

N/Rt OoV Hybrid
Fill optional with Mark of Fury, Weapon of Warding, Strip Enchantment, SoLS, DPS, Recup, Rejuv or anything you like, really. Main idea: OoV that uses a solid N/Rt backbone to support party (which should include a physical, obviously) with heals and physical buffs while also countering it's sac. Ghostmirror eats pressure for breakfast and also counters OoV sac. This build has an optional slot which makes it pretty flexible.

I don't use OoV often either btw. :P

Chthon · May 17, 2010, 02:22 AM // 02:22

12+1+3 Blood, 10 Smite, 8+1 SR
+5e (or 10HCT), 20%enchant spear | 20/20 blood focus

OoV
Blood Bond
Mark of Fury/Well of Blood
SoLS
SoH
Smite Hex
Smite Condition/Foul Feast
Monk rez of choice

Get an ER healer instead of wasting skillslots and attributes on a crappy, inefficient self-heal.

Also, putting spot heals on a guy whose job is to cast a spell with a 2sec cast every 6 sec is a dumb idea. There's a 1 in 3 chance he's not going to be timely with the heal because he's mid-cast on OoV.

Daesu · May 17, 2010, 02:43 AM // 02:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

12+1+3 Blood, 10 Smite, 8+1 SR
+5e (or 10HCT), 20%enchant spear | 20/20 blood focus

OoV
Blood Bond
Mark of Fury/Well of Blood
SoLS
SoH
Smite Hex
Smite Condition/Foul Feast
Monk rez of choice

Get an ER healer instead of wasting skillslots and attributes on a crappy, inefficient self-heal.

Also, putting spot heals on a guy whose job is to cast a spell with a 2sec cast every 6 sec is a dumb idea. There's a 1 in 3 chance he's not going to be timely with the heal because he's mid-cast on OoV.

Nice! If not for the fact that I have another hero with SoH, I would use this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myotheraccount

N/Rt 14 Blood, 10 SR, 9 Resto. OoV, Blood Bond, Optional, Ghostmirror Light, Mend Body and Soul, Protective was Kaolai, Life, FoMf. Fill optional with Mark of Fury, Weapon of Warding, Strip Enchantment, FoMF, DPS or anything you like, really. Main idea: OoV that uses a solid N/Rt backbone to support party (which should include a physical, obviously) with heals and physical buffs while also countering it's sac. Ghostmirror eats pressure for breakfast and also counters OoV sac. This build has an optional slot which makes it pretty flexible.

Since the hero is spamming OoV every 5 to 6s, then that would compete with cast time and energy for healing spells. He is either going to be a poor OoVer or a poor healer.

If you really want to bring heals with orders, you should bring spirit heals like Rejuvenation and/or Recuperation.

majoho · May 17, 2010, 02:59 AM // 02:59

I don't have a specific build for you also you didn't really say what how your and your other were setup so it's hard to give a definitive build.

One thing that comes to mind that could help with the health sacrifice would be to use a primary ele with "Aura of Restoration" / "Glyph of Restoration". Maybe you could use a water ele for snares or something.

The main problem is that for the hero to work optimal he will be spamming the OoV all the time so it would give the best synergy with 15+ energy spells with a 10+ secs recharge.

(or the obvious have him use life stealing skills).

ac1inferno · May 17, 2010, 03:28 AM // 03:28

http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:N/an...rs_Necromancer

Myotheraccount · May 17, 2010, 06:34 AM // 06:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Since the hero is spamming OoV every 5 to 6s, then that would compete with cast time and energy for healing spells. He is either going to be a poor OoVer or a poor healer.

If you really want to bring heals with orders, you should bring spirit heals like Rejuvenation and/or Recuperation.

What sense does it make to run Recuperation or Rejuvenation instead of Life on 9 resto? Recup will give you measly +2 regen on 9 resto for huge 25e cost. Rejuv is pretty meh unless you run it with more resto and Spirit Lord. Life is much better, it gives you massive partyheals and also helps sustain your minion wall when you run from mob to mob. Think before you post.

Also, my build performs both jobs well. Just what OP asked for; OoV with resto spells to help compensate for the sac. Default N/Rt bar has a few open skill slots anyway, one of which is Elite. Besides, by your logic you should bash your own build as well because it it neither OoV or a spirit spammer.

Daesu · May 17, 2010, 03:37 PM // 15:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myotheraccount

What sense does it make to run Recuperation or Rejuvenation instead of Life on 9 resto? Recup will give you measly +2 regen on 9 resto for huge 25e cost. Rejuv is pretty meh unless you run it with more resto and Spirit Lord. Life is much better, it gives you massive partyheals and also helps sustain your minion wall when you run from mob to mob. Think before you post.

Actually you can get 10 restore, not 9 if you drop your SR to 8+1 instead.

You can bring Life too if you like. +2 hp regen over 35s from Recuperation is not inferior to Life's 5hp/sec over 20s, neither is rejuvenation's 8hp/sec over 70s inferior to Life's.

maxxfury · May 17, 2010, 03:43 PM // 15:43

Thats the old regen vs spike heal debate.

Daesu · May 17, 2010, 05:08 PM // 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxfury

Thats the old regen vs spike heal debate.

Both have their pros and cons. And there is no reason why you can't bring all 3 of them either with extra slots to spare.

The point is you shouldn't be bringing spot heals with OoV.

Myotheraccount · May 17, 2010, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Actually you can get 10 restore, not 9 if you drop your SR to 8+1 instead.

You can. 10 Resto doesn't make much sense because you won't hit any major breakpoints with it but you can.
I wrote this build with breakpoints in mind and 9 Resto is 5hp/sec breakpoint for Life. Best attribute spread is actually 10+1+2 Blood, 8+1 SR and 12 Resto. So I will change it to that..

Quote:

You can bring Life too if you like. +2 hp regen over 35s from Recuperation is not inferior to Life's 5hp/sec over 20s, neither is rejuvenation's 8hp/sec over 70s inferior to Life's.

If we only take health gain into consideration, Recuperation and Rajuvenation are not inferior to Life. But consider other factors; Life costs 15 less energy than Recuperation and helps sustain your Minion wall, doesn't lose health Like Rejuvenation does (you should know what happens to Rejuv after several party members have taken damage) and has considerably shorter cd. That is why Life is better than Rejuvenation or Recuperation and should stay mainbarred.
Anyway, you can easily take Rejuv and/or Recup with Life on that bar. Like I said. optional slots are there for a reason. You can fill them in with anything you like. (FoMF should be an optional too, lolres)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Both have their pros and cons. And there is no reason why you can't bring all 3 of them either with extra slots to spare.

The point is you shouldn't be bringing spot heals with OoV.

No reason why you shouldn't. Also don't forget that OP wanted an OoV Nec that could somehow cope with the sac by itself. That means some kind of spot heals and/or regen.

AtomicMew · May 17, 2010, 06:47 PM // 18:47

I used to run OoV-resto quite a bit before spirits were buffed.

Now it should be even better. Loading up on spirit-heals is definitely the way to go. It's counterproductive to take more than one spot heal on the guy. 10+2+1/12/8+1 split works well.

Edit: I just realized who myotheraccount is. That explains so much <3

byteme! · May 17, 2010, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

If you really want to bring heals with orders, you should bring spirit heals like Rejuvenation and/or Recuperation.

No effin way. Not on that bar and not with those attributes. Costs too much for too little.

Life > Both (for his setup)

Daesu · May 18, 2010, 12:01 AM // 00:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by byteme!

No effin way. Not on that bar and not with those attributes. Costs too much for too little.

Life > Both (for his setup)

Yeah but Life only heals at 20s intervals and if you finish the fight at 21s and your hero just recast Life, then the second cast is no use to you unless you fight the next mob close enough. While recuperation and rejuvenation heal constantly while they are alive, Life may not give you the heals when you need it most. I would say each spirit has its pros and cons.

Myotheraccount · May 18, 2010, 10:26 AM // 10:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Yeah but Life only heals at 20s intervals and if you finish the fight at 21s and your hero just recast Life, then the second cast is no use to you unless you fight the next mob close enough. While recuperation and rejuvenation heal constantly while they are alive, Life may not give you the heals when you need it most. I would say each spirit has its pros and cons.

You are clueless. Heroes spam Life on recharge so chances are Life will be pre-cast before the fight. Outside battle it will help sustain your minion wall which is important too.

Dusk_ · May 18, 2010, 06:12 PM // 18:12

The problem with Heroes and single skill spamming builds is that they suck at it. Okay, maybe not suck, but they're not nearly as efficient as they should be.

If you want OoV up as much as possible, you have to specifically build their bar to avoid any other distractions. That basically means avoiding most (if not all) spammable skills other than the Order. If you put any spot heal skills in the bar, the Hero will prioritize those first, without exception.

Unless you like microing Heroes, of course.

byteme! · May 18, 2010, 07:30 PM // 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Yeah but Life only heals at 20s intervals and if you finish the fight at 21s and your hero just recast Life, then the second cast is no use to you unless you fight the next mob close enough. While recuperation and rejuvenation heal constantly while they are alive, Life may not give you the heals when you need it most. I would say each spirit has its pros and cons.

Seriously....that's all you got? Life > Both. If I really needed to be healed and when I really really need it most I won't be counting on Recup or Rejuv to save me, that'll be my designated healers job.

Daesu · May 19, 2010, 01:23 PM // 13:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myotheraccount

You are clueless. Heroes spam Life on recharge so chances are Life will be pre-cast before the fight. Outside battle it will help sustain your minion wall which is important too.

Life has a 20s recharge. You still may not get your heals when you need it most.

And I actually want my minions to die during battle so they can cause more damage. You can bring all 3 spirits if you want to, so I dont see the problem and I usually bring Life if I go restore.

How did you move the discussion focus from the spot heals in your build, to the Life vs other spirits debate Igor?

Myotheraccount · May 19, 2010, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Life has a 20s recharge. You still may not get your heals when you need it most.

Life has a tendency to die in the middle of a fight thanks to the nature of Hero AI that spams it on recharge. At this point, a large party heal will either be needed most or not at all.

Other advantages of life are that it has relatively low energy cost, shortest recharge out of the three, doesnt lose health and helps sustain your minion wall.

Quote:

And I actually want my minions to die during battle so they can cause more damage. You can bring all 3 spirits if you want to, so I dont see the problem and I usually bring Life if I go restore.

That's what I been telling you all along.

Also, Life won't effect the performance of your bombs but it will help you get your minion wall from a mob to a mob. I hope you won't deny that engaging into a fight with a bunch of pre-made bombs is better than doing so without them. As a result, it actually enhances bombing.

Quote:

How did you move the discussion focus from the spot heals in your build, to the Life vs other spirits debate Igor?

Not going to tell you, it will hurt your feelings.